2011 Contest plane

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sfpakuls
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Figured I'd start this topic so we can put up information on options for next year..

First and foremost I think we should propose a modified Assassin for a weekly Weds night series again..  Very successful..  everyone has one..  minimal cost to get this series going..

Suggestions on possibly a bit more Power!!!  But should come up with some rules... and specs to keep things equal..  lets start researching etc..  so we can get everyone going early next year..

Also..  ditch the PVC Launchers and Go to Hand Launch..   Crashes on Launch result in rerun of heat  etc...

2)  Possibly a monthly race Series (or at least several times on a schedule) with invites to other clubs etc..

Possibly NMPRA  rules?  EF1

Electric Quicky 500?

Come up with other Options?

I think we should look toward a nationally recognized series and adopt those rules.. 

This will help us get people outside the club possibly involved..

 

Here's link to NMPRA rules :   http://www.nmpra.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2379

Here's excerpt on Harware:

1) Weight: Minimum three and one quarter (3.25) pounds (1.48 kg), maximum three and three quarters (3.75) pounds (1.7 kg).
2) Wing:
a. Area: Minimum 375 square inches (24.2 sq dm). Wing area is the total projected wing area and includes that portion of the wing covered by, or within the fuselage and fairings.
b. Span: Maximum 52 inches (projected) (132 cm). Removable wings are measured in their final configuration ready for flight.

c. Currently Approved Motors:
(i) E-Flite Power 25 1250kV - 60A outrunner motor
(ii) Turnigy AerodriveXp 25 SK Series 35-42 1250Kv

c. Currently Approved Speed Controllers:
(i) E-Flite 60-Amp Pro Switch-Mode BEC Brushless ESC
(ii) Castle Creations Phoenix 60
(iii) Castle Creations Phoenix Ice 75
(iv) Castle Creations Phoenix Ice Lite 75
3) Battery: Battery shall be a commercially available Lithium Polymer (LiPo) battery.
a. Maximum Number of Battery Cells: Motor battery shall have a maximum of 4 cells, and all cells shall be contained in shrink tubing.
b. Maximum Battery Weight: Motor battery pack shall have a maximum weight of 325 grams including all connectors and wires and shrink tubing.

Current available ARF -  LR1A POGO from EFlight. http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFL4200

 

John FitzGerald
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I like the idea of the wing

I like the idea of the wing being reused with more power allowed. The pvc launchers will work great with more power used. Last night I had no problem getting off the launcher. More power means more speed, more speed equals more lift. Launchers work great now, with a bigger motor, and maybe 2200 mah 3 cells, we'd have zero issue leaving the launcher

tailgunner
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yup, John's right

That boy has potential

John FitzGerald
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I've had more fun with these

I've had more fun with these Assasins this year then any time in the 3 years I've been flying. Cant wait until next year. I think we need to find a winter series. Small vapor indoor pilon? He He. I can see the modified vapors now........  (John's drifting into dream sequence at this point)

fjtowler
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2011 Contest Plane

I did some looking for a motor upgrade for the wings. 

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1052384&page=102

They are using the same prop with a Tower Pro TP2409_12D  delta wind

Sounds like replacing the stock shaft with drill rod would be a good idea for longevity.

Motor is $15 They are also modifying the motor mounts for the higher power.

RCAddict
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I like the motor, would we

I like the motor, would we have to up our ESC's? is matching motor (peak 25A) and ESC (also 25A)  amperage okay or would we start seeing parts burnout? maybe mark B could weigh in?

markusvt
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If you have the CC ESC, no

If you have the CC ESC, no problem, some of the HC, well, bye-bye ESC.  Catch 22, more powerful motor, need better ESC, need better battery, need stronger mounting, maybe different prop, a bit faster and the wings will fold, will need more carbon, and so on, and so on...........

A direct replacement, more durable, more consistent motor would be fine, and hand launches for next year would do it.  A 7x5 prop would be slower, but make these motors last better too.

John FitzGerald
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Cool Cool. What ever everyone

Cool Cool. What ever everyone agree's on. is there a way to get more torque with out going bigger on the motor? maybe that would give us a better launch? I really like the launchers, but know that LOTS of people ha a hard time with them, and id like to see more people make the race instead of crash. Maybe the choice? You can hand launch if you want, or use the stand?

wpierce
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Re-Use the Wing

Ditto on reusing the wing idea.  I think some people may have decided to not participate because of the cost.  If they see us recycling past contest planes, they may be more likely to buy a new plane to participate.

Nice research on the new motor, Fred, looks like a good idea.

Wayne.

pcottrel
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2011 Contest Plan

I didn't participate this year because my flying skills seems inadequate.   I decided to race next year because I gained some experience this summer and have a chance to practice over the winter.  So, I bought 3 for the price of 2 kits and am building now.  (I want to sell one of the three kits.  $40)  I agree that we should reuse the wings as they seem quite durable and are relatively inexpensive.   More power/torque may make launching easier could also make it more difficult as the torque needs to be counteracted by aileron correction to achieve level flight.   I think a heavier motor, ESC, and battery could actually make launching more difficult as more speed would be required to fly.    However I have no problem swapping one 3S motor for another.   How about a catapult launcher?  I have seen home made ones.
Peter

Peter Cottrell

pcottrel
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Assassin wing build notes and issues

Assassin Wing Build Issues:

1)      FC-2812 motor – The set screws fell out.    Added Locktite to the threads.

2)      Elevon horn - The elevon horn detached from the wing in a minor crash.    I re-glued and taped over the horn on the bottom of the elevon. 

3)      Elevons – Elevons will not move to lowest defection.  Allow a large enough gap when taping the top of the elevons so the bottom tape and covering does not bind the elevons.

4)      CG – The CG is behind the spar.   The CG is moved aft with the addition of the winglets.   The winglets move the center if aerodynamic pressure aft too.    My wing is stable with the CG about 2 mm behind the spar.  

5)      Push Rods – The push rods bind when the servos are mounted horizontally flush with the wing surface.     An alternate approach is to vertical mount the servos.   Putting the Dubro EZ-connectors on the servo arms instead of the elevon horns raises the push rods enough so that the servo arms can be below the wing surface. 

6)      Weight – Adding the winglets and not removing the outboard leading edges will result in a wing that weighs 16.2 oz. without the battery and 20.8 oz. with a 1500 20C battery.   Some weight can be saved by using 1” tape on the leading edge and reducing covering overlap at the joints but the path to 17 oz. AUW is not at all clear.  

7)      Winglets –My first design used light weight plywood.  These fractured on the first crash.  My latest design uses relatively stiff plastic from a three wing binder found at Staples and are taped on.  These seem relatively indestructible.

8)      Prop saver – To be effective the prop saver must be mounted at the end of the prop shaft.    This moves the props aft and puts undue stress on the motor bearings.  Also, the screws cannot be tightened enough to prevent it from rotating on the shaft.      The prop shaft  was cut to a minimum length and flats filed to enhance the effectiveness of the set screws.

9)      Push rod supports – The straws constraining the push rods split.    Supports can be constructed from the same binder material as the winglets.   These are hot glued into the wing.

10)   Prop – The prop does not fit on the prop saver.  The prop washer can be glued into the prop.

11)   Expo- 25% on aileron and 15% on elevator seems OK for me.

12)   FC-2812 – the motor speeds up slowly so launcher starts will be a problem.  No problem with a hand launch however.

13)   Elevon deflection – The wing rolls are not axial unless the down elevon deflection is greater than the up elevon deflection.   Here are my current deflections with the “wheel” servo arm on the HS-82MG servo with 5/8” horn height on the elevon:

Half Up: ½”; Full up: ¾”; Half down: ¾”; Full down: 1”

I achieved this by programming 150% down travel in the DX7.   Since the differential is opposite of normal aileron differential, I could not use the built-in capability in the DX7.   In the future I would probably use a longer servo arm and mechanical differential as suggested in the build instructions (angle the servo arm toward the bow) and then reduce the amount if necessary using the built in function.   I would also do this with a less flexible transmitter.

Peter Cottrell

gberian
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Contest Plane

Can we have Mark L tie one hand behind his back or close one eye?

Once decided, lets make a bulk purchase of the new motors - I'll race in 2011.

butterfingers
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Hey guys, I'm reviving this

Hey guys, I'm reviving this thread because I'm interested in participating in WNFC.  Are we officially doing the assasin flying wing again this year?  What are the official regs on the ESC and battery size?

John FitzGerald
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We are still waiting on the

We are still waiting on the motor and ESC specs. Hopefully at the next meeting we will have a somewhat solid answer, or at least an idea. With the weather the February meeting was limited. Yes, we are still useing the assasin wing.

fjtowler
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Assasin Wing order

James H. and myself are looking at ordering a kit , if we get to 3 it's free shipping $50 vs $60.

Anyone interested let me know.

Fred

silas_miller
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I'd be interested as well. Am

I'd be interested as well. Am I too late? I don't completely understand but it seems like fun!!

RCAddict
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Its really hard to be "too

Its really hard to be "too late" John F. didn't fly in the first 5 races and still took second place last year! If there is enough interest (and seeing there is already 3+ people) that want to order, group ordering is definitely the way to go. 

It should total around $100 for the plane plus the motor / esc / servos. If you have a radio and reciever already anything will do in these guys. Some people last year pulled their 72mhz transmitter/recievers out of retirement since they were lying around. If you dont have one (and dont want to make the investment yet) you can go with the a Hobby King 6 channel radio  http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=15140 (need the 6 chan for the mixing abilities, also you need the programming cable) or the 7ch http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10173 (dont think you need the pc cable which should land the total package around $150ish 

Last year's competition was a ton of fun, hopefully we hear more about this at the March Meeting (Hint hint... berardo / tony caugh caugh)

John FitzGerald
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WHAT MOTOR ARE WE RUNNING?

WHAT MOTOR ARE WE RUNNING? can we make a quick change motor mount that we can have "handout" motors? everyone has the same connectors, and 3 screws or something, then everyone draws a motor from a bag each week? levels the playing field a bit.

markusvt
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I don't think we need to make

I don't think we need to make it that complicated.  We are still checking a few motors out, and will know is plenty of time for folks to purchase.  Last years motor was not as durable as we would have liked.  I think going to a 7x4 from a 7x6 would have made it last fine, but would have slowed the wing down quite a bit.

Plans for the new motor:

Similar weight to last year, so no big effects on CG.

Use same ESC, (25A), since we all have one.

Use same batteries, since we all have them, and really they are the max for the wing.

Use same prop if possible, not a deal breaker, but if possible.....

Keep current load to insure safe motor, ESC and battery, this is number 1

Not increase the speed of the wing too much, so flying can be safe and construction can be similar.

Tony may have more information/ideas.

trainwreck
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Mark and I are almost ready to send the specs out.

I have been sick and busy at work, I do apologize for not getting this info sooner.  We have one more motor to test. The last one we tested this past weekend was way too fast(did not have the gun on it, but seemed it was 70-80mph), and was too close on amps.  We are waiting for a delivery on the next test motor.  As Mark has stated, not much will change in the airframe, build specifications, or weight.  The motor we are looking at has a bigger shaft, and the casing is much stronger.  Although I haven't found a US equivalent, for the same price, we are still trying.

If you find build directions "online", outside of the ones that we have specified, please contact me.  There may be unfair advantages used in newer builds than older versions. 

Again this year, there will be a tech inspection. We want to keep it fun and fair for all.

Topics for change, throwing wing to start (motor must be off), with two false starts allowed. Meaning, everyone is allowed a clean turn around north pylon.  Position on starts determined on point status, more points hardest start position.

Can I get a rough count on how many are signing up this year?  Please e-mail me trainwreckf22@gmail.com

Hope to have more next meeting.

Thanks, Tony

butterfingers
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Hey guys! Fred, Silas (I

Hey guys!

Fred, Silas (I think), and myself are going to buy a 3-pack of the wing.  If we buy 3, we get free shipping.  Is anyone else interested?  If we buy 5, we get one free ( I don't know if that includes free shipping, or not).

If no one else is interested, I'll place the order as soon as I get the $$$. 

-James

butterfingers
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Beuller?  Anyone?

Beuller?  Anyone?

silas_miller
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I'm in. What do you need?

I'm in. What do you need?

butterfingers
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I was comparing the build

I was comparing the build instructions in the "2010 Contest Plane" thread against the ones found on crashtesthobby.com.  What is the deal with the iron-on laminate?  Are we supposed to use it?  The 2010 build instructions don't reference it.  I want to make sure I build it to the "legal" specs.

-James

markusvt
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You can use it, it works

You can use it, it works well.  Use even heat, don't warp the wing.  Color the wing first, under the covering.  Use an EPP friendly paint.

John FitzGerald
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Also use the 3M pray glue

Also use the 3M pray glue that they talk about. It helps alot. And with the laminate, you can remove the strapping tape much easier if needed.

butterfingers
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So you put the tape OVER the

So you put the tape OVER the laminate, and not under? 

John FitzGerald
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Yes, Glue the 2 wing peices

Yes, Glue the 2 wing peices together, then use the sprey glue, then cover with the laminate, after the carbon spar is installed of course.

butterfingers
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I thought that you put the

I thought that you put the laminate on after, the tape so that the tape stays sealed.  That way it doesn't yellow, and peel off.

John FitzGerald
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the tape will still yellow

the tape will still yellow from the sun

silas_miller
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So what is the verdict on

So what is the verdict on engine? Hoping to get this going. Could be flying with the weather today.

Tomorrow not so much.....

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