Beginner Electric RTF plane
I've received a few emails from the website contact page from new or prospective flyers that want to know what to buy for a first plane. A recent one was from a father and son, John and Sam Walker, that I met at the July Barre FF. John would like some input on what to get for Sam (9 years old) to learn to fly with. He's interested in an electric model to start with.
I'll start with the Easy Star which is a known favorite. I think we should stay with RTF's (Ready to Fly) and EPP foam models.
Al
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=MPU13203
We appreciate the help. Is it a better idea to save some money and get a kit or to get a RTF version? Thanks a lot.
Multiplex Easy Star R/C RTF (RC)
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Availability: In stock.
Regular Price: $189.99
Special Price: $149.99
Quick Overview
The Multiplex Easy Star RTF (Ready to Fly) was designed for first-time pilots in mind, and offers incredibly stable flight characteristics and durability. One of the design features of the Easy Star is the rear mounted propeller, which helps limit damage in less-than-perfect landings.
Great question. As a fellow Dad I can relate. I remember back when my Father schooled me on RC and got me started, all we had were kits. The kit building is priceless. However, I have a 13 yr old daughter and she is focused on her looks not an RC kit, so my route was easy. I needed to learn how to fly and more stick time and less building was my focus.
With budgeting and building a kit in mind, I would recommend an electric powered glider, this Graupner Small RC-UHU Glider from Hobby-Lobby on sale now for only $39.00. Hobby-Lobby is a well known company (I've bought from them many times years ago) The Small RC-UHU is the starting point for kids to get involved with flying in Germany.
NOTE: The only drawback to building a kit route is that all these parts and everything else you need adds up FAST. This is another reason to go RTF as most have good deals on the complete package; Built up ARF plane, installed servos, charger, battery, transmitter and receiver.
If you decide a kit route I was thinking of this also...
ON SALE RC-UHU Kit $39.00
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/small_rc_uhu_glider_103041_prd1.htm
Order the motor pod for $44.31 from Graupner USA
http://www.v-eastonline.com/products/Motor-mount-and-propeller.html
And then you'll need a radio transmitter and receiver, servos, Lipo batteries, charger, glue for the kit (German UHU Hart glue is AWESOME and light on balsa) and I'm sure I'm forgetting something else!
I am new so this will be a simple question. Can someone please explain the advantage/disadvantage of the Easy Star standard radio vs. a 2.4 version? Also, can I update to 2.4 at a later date? How long is the charge time for a normal impatient 9 year old? Thanks.
John,
2.4ghz radios are the new way to go. They offer conflict free frequencies while flying. The older radios used 72mhz and have 49 shared channels that can cause radio interference if 2 planes try to use the same channel number at the same time. At the field we have a board to keep the use of the channels regulated to prevent a channel from being used by another person while it's in use.
It used to be that sometimes you had to wait for a channel to be open. With so many flyers switching to 2.4ghz radios, that really isn't a problem anymore.
For your very first purchase, buying a 72mhz radio with a RTF wouldn't be a mistake, it makes the whole package a bit more affordable, and will work just fine. If you are looking towards the future and really know you're going to be a long term addicated plane junkie like all of us are, then you probably should look towards buying a better radio ( 2.4ghz) right from the beginning. The 2 radios systems are not interchangeable, either one by themselves can be reused in other future planes but you can't mix or match the receivers/transmitters between 72mhz and 2.4ghz systems.
Battery charge times are typically 1 hour, so for electric you need to plan ahead. Especially for 9 year olds. Plan to buy 2 extra batteries and have all 3 charged before you get to the field and you will be charging the drained ones while you are flying on the the 2nd or 3rd battery.
Hope that helps,
Al
Thanks for the great information. I will try to get a 2.4 radio from the beginning if they will let me substitute with the Easy Star package and pay a little more. Thanks to another helpful posting, I found the basic package for $149 at Hobby People . Are they decent to deal with?
See you on Saturday.
The Easy Star is on it's way to me today. I ordered from Hobby People because of the $149 price. Thanks for talking me through this. We will looking to set Sam up with some instructional help as soon as it gets here. I appreciate the club's willingness to help a new pilot. Maybe you can also help the old pilot (me).
Best,
John and Sam
I have a Spektrum DX6i 2.4 Radio, that I will sell with a MS Composites Swift 2 Special edition wing, with receiver, 2 batts and a lipo balance charger. I will sell it all for $220. This would make you guys a great wing, and you'd have a 6 channell, computerized spektrum radio.
The radio would be OK, but I would NOT recommend a wing as a first plane for a beginner, let's keep the topics in line with the thread please.
thanks,
Al
Ok ok, I though it was a good idea, but hey, you could allways keep it as a second plane, for when you get used to flight! Think of it as buying a radio, some batts, a receiver, and a charger, and getting a free plane!
Is a 40" wingspan good for beginners? i have the Firebird commander 2 in mind, and i was wondering if that is a good plane to start with.
Hi Shane,
I read a few reviews of that plane and one mentioned that it only has throttle and rudder (reviewer called it an aileron). This means that up/down movement is controlled by increasing or decreasing the throttle. In my opinion, this is not considered normal RC flying and because of that I wouldn't recommend it for learning RC. Try to find something that has a minimum of 3 channels, throttle, rudder, AND elevator. Also realize that many of the smaller electric planes are very light which is good for long flight times but can't fly in windy conditions, something we have quite a bit here in VT. Having to wait all day for the wind to drop sucks. Any wind over 5mph and that Firebird Commander would be underpowered, unruly, and pretty much useless.
Al
to John Fitzgerald:
I would also like to see the plane you have for sale. The Easy Star was for my son but dad may want to join in after Sam gets hooked. We will be at the field around noon on Saturday. We have soccer in the a.m. Thanks.
I will bring the whole set up for you to look at.
how about the Champ from horizon hobby? every one of the reviews is someone who got this as their first plane, and say it is great.
Looks better, it's got 3 channel and it's 2.4ghz. Only down side is it's a real featherweight, really meant for indoor or breathless (no wind) outdoor flying.
One other one that popped up is the super mini cub, it's 4 times heavier, so it could tolerate a bit of wind outdoors. It's got a FM transmitter but that's not a concern or problem. The only bad part of the review was a possible weak tail which broke on more than one reviewer, but was easy to fix and beef up.
I know the $'s are more, but bigger is always better when flying and having a heavier plane sounds bad but neither of the planes above will fly well in winds higher than 5mph. The EasyStar can fly fine in 10mph.
I see that AMA membership is necessary when joining the club. It appears that a child under 18 can join AMA for $1 per year or $15 if they want a magazine. Am I correct? Also, can an adult join as a non-flying member without joining AMA.
Does the AMA Park Pilot program satisfy membership in AMA if I decide to fly as well? I did read that there are restrictions on the planes under the Park Pilot program. For now, we are starting with the Easy Star.
Thanks.
You are correct in that technically an AMA license is required in order to join the club, AMA provides insurance in case anything were to happen while flying your plane, both at our field, and anywhere else you want to fly.
Your son's cost to join AMA is just $1 and to join the GMRC club is just $12
As far as Park Flyer Membership goes the club has never directly addressed this issue, However, I would guess that as long as you stay within the limits set forth by AMA (* Aircraft must not exceed 2 pounds, 60 mph, and may not be powered with an internal combustion engine *) that you would be allowed to join the club as a flying member.
I would like to note that while Horizon Hobby says "Flying Weight" of the easy star is 24 oz. (1.5 pounds) That doesn't always include things like the battery, motor, servos, and everything else that comprises the "All Up Weight" or "AUW" This one post on RC Groups (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=534768) said his came out to be a kilo or 2.2 pounds. Top speed estimated around 10-50 mph so your okay there. and obviously electrics are not internal combustion engines.
For your last question of being able to join the club as a non-flying, non-AMA member, In the past we have always allowed this even though it "technically" goes against our by-laws. They were written at a time (30+ years ago I believe) where the club was rather small and was assumed if you wanted to be a member you wanted to fly. Section 5.2.1 says a member needs AMA but Section 5.2.2 says if a person fails to keep AMA they "lose your flying privilege" and basically become an associate member (non-flying) and can stay there as long as they like.
In short, the whole idea behind the "Associate Member" is for you exact case, a non-flying member with or without AMA. That cost to join is $12 and if you decide later to become a flying member you can pay the difference between the two membership levels.
Just one other note on the Easy Star AUW, they guy on RC groups used a NiCAD battery and had to add lead weight to get the CG (Center of Gravity) in the correct spot. Using a LiPo Battery system can save you a ton of weight and get longer flight times, and careful building you wont need the lead weight (or at least not as much). With the correct equipment it should be classified as a park flyer.
Hi John & Sam,
Glad to hear you've made your choice. Wanted to say that even though this is a very good first plane, take some instruction with the club trainer on the buddy cord and let an experienced pilot fly it on it's maiden flight to trim the plane, and then have the pilot hand over the controls while in the air to give you some time to adjust to the feeling of the plane.
Best of luck and hope to see you enjoying the hobby real soon,
Al
We really appreciate all the great information on planes, AMA etc. Thanks again and we will see you at noon tomorrow. We want to observe for a few hours.
p.s. I just picked up a new Skymaster Viper Jet. I want to try it for the first time on Saturday. (just a little Friday night humor )
Thanks to everyone for their help on Saturday. We had a ball. Sam wants to send out a special thanks to Matt for helping him get started on his "wings."
Sam, Lisa and John
On Saturday, we noticed many different radios. When surfing the various on-line stores, we see that some of the RTF kits come with a 2.4 radio. The common ones seem to be the Tactic 440 and there are some from Spektrum. Some of the kits sell for less than $150 and include these radios. It almost seems a little too good to be true. Sam's Easy Star should be here in a day or so and we will stick with the radio it comes with. I am looking to purchase something like a Cessena 182 RTF 2.4 electric for myself. I just want to know if the inexpensive 2.4 radios will work with future planes. After I log some hours, I also am very interested in a flying wing . Any insight into these topics would be appreciated. Thanks.
Let's meet up, and you can look at the stuff that I have as a package. Most 2.4 can be used with multiple planes, but most cheaper radio's only have 1 model memory, so you have to re trim and re set up for every model that you bind it to.
Great idea. I can be reached most mornings at 264-6608.
John
There are a lot of cheaper radios coming out now from HobbyKing, corona, FrSky, and others but I recommend looking at your transmitter as an investment. yes you can buy a $60 radio with 5 model memory and $20 matching receiver. That might seem okay for a $150 dollar RTF trainer, but once you put your trainer on there, and your wing, what comes next? will you want to put an acrobatic plane that is $150 just for the shell (fuse and wing) with a $50 speed controller, a $70 motor, $100 in servos? That is basically a $500 setup flying around relying on a stripped down Chinese knockoff.
My advice, Invest in a Spektrum, JR, or Futaba FAAST radio, they 10+ model memory so they can pretty much fly your entire hanger off one radio, most have redundant radio systems so if one channel gets interference, the second channel ensures your plane doesn't take the hit, and if one day you decide this isn't for you they retain their value quite well. For example, a Spektrum DX6i (Which I think would probably be a perfect radio for you) currently retails new for $150, the radio's have been out for a few years now and there are DX7's and New DX8-11's coming out yet radios that have been used for 3 years are still selling for $110 on ebay. Whereas the $60 hobby city radio you'll be lucky if anyone even wants to buy it in 3 years.
The DX6i has all the functionality of the newer DX7's and can fly almost any plane (even highly acrobatic like Al's Red 'basher' and Mark's green Edge). It is not that much more of an investment and it could last you for 15 years in this hobby without needing an upgrade.
Thanks for the great advice on the radios. Any suggestions on who is might be the best outfit to buy from? We used Hobby People for Sam's Easy Star because of the Labor Day $149 kit price but want to know who others use.
Thanks to Peter C. for helping me on the phone last night. Sam's plane is together and running. I had forgotten to turn on the radio before plugging it in to the battery. We will learn.
Well my guess is that the radio setup john was talking about earlier might have been his dx6i as he mentioned selling it earlier in the thread. You might want to see what he will give you for a deal.
Horizon Hobby owns Spektrum Radios and they offer the dx6i for the $149.99 just make sure you buy a MD2 or "Mode 2" controller, (Heres a link explaining Controller "modes" http://www.rc-airplane-world.com/rc-transmitter-modes.html ) Mode 2 is the common or standard mode for the US, in Europe Mode 1 is more common. While the DX6i's and DX7's can swap these using the programming menus... its just easier to buy the right mode to begin with. Horizon has Excellent customer service and since they are the ones that make it the can answer any question you have.
Make sure to stay away from the DX7se, the "Special Edition" increases the controllers speed and accuracy, but it doesn't have the trainer port / switch, something I think you'll need starting out.
Also I know the DX7 comes in "Airplane" or "Heli" versions (dont know if the dx6i does as well), the Heli Version does not have the "ratcheting" or the click feeling on the left stick, it is smooth like the right hand stick of a transmitter (but not spring loaded). Also some of the switches are re-arranged (your 3-way switch is on left instead of right, and a 2 way switch is on the right instead of left). Both versions can fly either a plane of a helicopter, however, I feel its easier to use a heli radio for a plane than a plane radio for a heli due to these changes.
Other than that, google around for the best deals, check RCGroups.com and some of the "Hobby Shop" links off of our "Links" page off our "Secondary Links" menu on the left.
Just a point to mention , if you need servo's and a receiver some of the package deals at horizon are great , I got 4 light weight digital servo's for $10 each when I bought my DX6i
I recently purchased an Easystar. It weights 1.6 lbs with the high performance engine and ESC plus a 2650 mAh 3 cell LiPo. You will not need a bigger (heavier) LiPo as the flight time with the 2650 is quite long (>10 minutes). Also, a heavier LiPo would likely require adding weight to the tail. The Easystar is very stable. In fact, it is so stable that it will not roll. It will do loops and even will fly upside down as long as you get there from the top of a loop. It glides quite well with quite a bit of speed. So well, that it is easy to come for a landing in way too high. In fact, the long glide slope makes landing in a short distance may make that the most difficult part of the flight.
I found putting it together relatively easy with the exception of routing the wires from the ESC to the motor. The high performance, brushless inrunner uses 3 wires which must be extended and fit into the fuselage (the two wired from the battery to the ESC should not be extended as that would fry the ESC). The fuselage must be routed out so that the wires fit. Getting that done without damage to the fuselage was a bit tricky. Another thing to watch is the location of the receiver relative to the other electronics. My receiver lost contact and the plane crashed when it was too close to the battery. I have not had any problems since I mounted it in the top of the canopy. I also added some thing fiberglass on the bottom of the fuselage to avoid damage upon landing If I build another one, I would try to find a way to make the tail assembly removable for easier storage and transportation. Also, I might increase the effective rudder size by extending it to the top of the vertical stabilizer. However, for a first plane I would just build it exactly as shown in the instructions.
Repairs are relatively simple. Crushed foam can be expanded to the original shape by immersion in boiling water. Regular CA forms a permanent bond.
Peter,
Is there a self-sticking reinforced tape that you would recommend for the bottom and where can I buy it?
Thanks
3M (Scotch) Extreme tape works very well. It is strong and sticky. I put it on the bottom of the fuselage. I also put it on the wing tips but I do not recommend that as it pulled off the grey color when I removed it. This is not an issue on the white fuselage. After the plan crashed (the receiver was too close to the battery so no control and a crash), I used mesh drywall joint tape and finishing epoxy because I planned to paint the fuselage.
Lowes and Home Depot have it. Probably Aubchon and Ace too.
FYI: The Easy Star has an "evil twin" out there: Banana Hobby's Sky Surfer.
It is basically the same plane, but with ailerons and cheaper. There is an airframe/motor only version (which unfortunately has been sold out for the last few months) and a complete package with radio:
http://www.bananahobby.com/1937.html (package deal, $99.90)
http://www.bananahobby.com/2029.html (airframe/motor only, $49.90)
I do not have personal experience with that model, but the reviews on the web are quite good. Maybe worth a try at that price for some... I'd get the airframe only version if it was available.
Thanks. I purchased the Easy Star for my son and also am considering the one from Banana Hobby. The video is great. The guy in the video has the upgraded engine. Total price with the upgrade= $130 - not bad if it holds up. See you all around noon tomorrow. (soccer first) I hope someone can spend a few minutes with Sam. He has logged about 10 solo flights in our field but has not yet been checked out by Al, Matt etc. Maybe a little duel time? If not, he will understand. We will bring it anyhow.
Very, very, very easy plane to fly. Someone will be able to help you. Make sure your batteries are fully charged before you come.
As Mark Said,
Someone should be there to help you, I'm planning on being there, I believe Al is too. Did you apply for AMA for Sam this year or are you waiting for 2011? if you have AMA this year anyone at the club can fly you.
Sam has joined AMA. Too bad about the wind on Saturday. Sam was not ready to fly with the wind and a pro audience. Thanks to John, Peter and Matt for the technical info. I really think I may experiment with an "easy to fly" helicopter this winter. I want something substantial that I can use for a while, is somewhat easy to fly and can take a bump or two. Additional suggestions are welcome. See you at the Nov. meeting.
Blade MCX or MSR. There great little helo's for orientation training.
Yea the Blade mCX and mSR were the two I talked about at the field with you. You can try both at the November meeting. The mCX is very docile, you can fly pretty much hands off and the thing will sit there and hover, I've always said to people that have the mCX that the mSR is a great second step, but theres no reason why you couldn't learn on them, they are both very durable (much much more than their larger CX and SR versions).
Blade mCX from Horizon Hobby
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFLH2400
Blade mSR from Horizon Hobby
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdId=EFLH3000
Given the price difference, I would go with the mSR.. Its docile enough to let you learn, and in high rate mode agile enough to keep you interested.
Here are some links from last year's Vermont Modelers Club Fun Fly where I was flying my mSR
http://www.youtube.com/greenmountainrc#p/f/5/2Q3MbfuRskA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArW-l5aNXwI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnxjHk3Eit0
Al, this is a great choice! The $189 RTF price and, from what I've seen at our field, an awesome flying plane by the German Multiplex company is unbeatable.
Since I'm a beginner and a total Scale Sailplane enthusiast nut (I just love the way they fly and look). I'd like to also add the plane I learned on to this list (and you trained me on) my Parkzone RTF Radian with a 2.4 gHz Spektrum DX5e, complete with charger for $249.00. The Radian has more of a scale look to it than the Multiplex and ultimately with the 2.4 gHz radio helped me decide.
Available from the same distributor as the Easy Star. I purchased from Hobbyzone, and have made an additional purchase with them - a second battery and improved, upgraded Du-Bro mini ez control arm connectors. Recommended vendor.
http://secure.hobbyzone.com/catalog/HZ/index/index_park_flyers_rtf/PKZ47...
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=PKZ4700
Total floater and thermal flyer. After only five or six times flying, I'm getting more confident and LOVE how it performs flips as my daughter says!
These videos, just make we want to fly my Radian more. The first video is with you launching Al at our field in Essex, VT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FfgBBTn0uQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acbb3mSOxKU
More seasoned pilots with Radian's in Laguna Niguel, SoCal along with a Red Tail Hawk!
http://vimeo.com/14522497
http://vimeo.com/14424510