2010 Contest Plane
www.crashtesthobby.com/index.php
First 6 have been delivered.
Below were ordered on 1/15/10.
Paid:
- Fred Towler
- Steve Shaw
- Mark Lucia
- Mike Ratz
- Matt Reed
- Steve P.
- Rich G.
- Bob Fraser
- 9. David Tomezau
Hi Peter,
Saw your email and sent you a reply.
Al
Hey guys just as a heads up, Personally I wouldn't put actual email addresses in forum posts. You could take a look at some of Mark L.'s Posts where he breaks it up so bots see it in their scans (and yes our site does get scanned just like every other website on the internet). Also the links under each person's name gives links to PM the user or "Contact the User" which sends an email directly to them. So you might want to go back and edit your posts.
Don't say I didn't warn you 
Tony released the rules and build docs. Turns out the build doc is too big to use Google docs and there are too many pictures to resubmit into a forum entry ( a lot of work).
So the easiest and so far the best way to distribute is to post the docs here in the forum and let each interested member download the info.
What comes with the packadge for 50 bucks? just the air frame? or servos and such?
John,
Mark was getting the plane only. Mike was getting some of the other parts. Servos, we're on our own.
Al,
I have converted them to PDF. A bill of materials, build doc, and spec-rules. The are 204KB,279KB and 593KB respectively. Is that small enough to place here?
Dang! can't find my old avatar....
Thanks guys, Site looks good!
Tony, I did a quick writeup on how to upload files
I should accept up to either 2MB per file or 8MB per file, I forget how the server is setup.
Got'cha covered
You da Man! (translated--> best geek ever)
A couple of questions...
ESC – Any 25A – no special features
Can you clarify, 'no special features'
Without specifying a specific esc, pilots could use adjustable timing to gain speed. Pilots not aware of this will be at a disadvantage.
How can we check to ensure compliance?
If it means Any 25A esc and leave it at basic timing, what is that spec?
Suggestion:
Specify an inexpensive HobbyCity esc set to high timing if available. ( a couple of us have Turnigy programming cards)
Have an Outlaw/Unlimited division with little or no rules other than span.
Guidance on what is an 'Approved Helmet" ?
So I'm thinking that any 25A should be OK, even though we found out during the last contest that this could be a factor (but that was only if you were smoking the motor!). If someone buys a Turnigy, then allow high timimg or if someone uses a CC Thunderbird, they can set max curent, etc.... Let each user try whatever ESC they want. Won't the max amperage be good enough to keep the playing field in check?
I didn't want to lose too much more hair over this, so I let the only major component slide (manufacturer of ESC and ailerons), I still wanted to allow flyers to use equipment they already had. If you found something that you cheated w/... I mean, that you found a loop hole, then you can apply that to this years model. No one can put six layers of tape on the wing, can't use a bigger battery than an 1850 3s, and the prop is fixed. I hope this just comes down to skill, and tactics. Should I ask for settings to be submitted by the top three finishers each week? Like NASCAR does? just to allow a fair advantage to the other pilots? I really didn't want to do too much more work after the race. If its not in the directions, then it needs to be submitted for approval, I did leave that in there, didn't I?
Anybody else weighing in on this (contest committee)? Thank you for staying on top of this, its good feed back, escpecially before the start...
TrainWreck
Mark...put me down for one please.
I can paypal you the $$...email me your paypal address (i will send as gift to prevent any fees).
Mark, use same address as above for PayPal, no problem.
Money sent...thanks
Mark,
I'll take one. Will use PayPal also.
PP sent. Thanks.
Bike helmets ok? Standard 'bumb' caps ok? Full on Hard Hats?
Any updates on the order? Just curious
Need 2 more to place order.
Here are the PDF documents that Tony sent me. Besides, I wanted to try the upload features.
Click on the links below and be sure to read all the details!
Wayne.
Maybe Al can sned a reminder email to the members so they can bring you $$ at the meeting tomorrow?
Did a little searching and found this.. Might be worth a try and see if it does the trick..
That is basically what I was thinking but just trying to get the plane more over the stand so you don't have to have your foot on it :-) Something that would look more like this in profile:
/
| /<- Plane sits here
/|/
Support Brace for Take offs->/ |\<- Brace if needed
/ | \
Sorry using ASCII Characters doesn't let me change the angle of the ramp, but not that steep.
Paid:
- Fred Towler
- Steve Shaw
- Mark Lucia
- Mike Ratz
- Matt Reed
- Steve P.
- Rich G.
- Bob Fraser
- David Tomezau
Maybe I'm the first one wondering this but...Where is the CG point for the Assasin?
Instructions indicate "We recommend the battery to be installed back 2.5" and the slot cut back 4.5"."
This seems pretty general but thought someone with more wing knowledge could help
out.
Mike
Found this in RC Group photo's:
"By the way the CG is back 6.25" to 6.5"."
Mike
Mark, is there any left at 50 bucks? I have the parts, now I need the plane
John,
I know there were a few others interested in getting a plane still, Jim Miller I think, and I think Mike Muzzy said he might want a backup one.. Including yourself thats half way to a new group order.
None left, but we could order more.
I still need to get one. I can order on my own if need be. Anyone interested in 1 more group buy? maybe a spare plane? Thanks!
From the designer:
Most Common Building Mistakes to Avoid
1. Plane is too heavy. Keep the planes light. A light plane needs less power for high performance and is less likely to break in an accident.
2. Didn't do each step in the right building order. I have heard builders say they got the steps out of order and had to undo to redo it right.
3. Plane is not balanced properly. Flying wings are sensitive to the center of gravity and fly poorly if they are tail heavy. You may have to make adjustments in the placement of your battery and radio or even add weight to get the the plane to balance on the recommended center of gravity.
4. There is slop in the linkages and hinges. Your linkages, hinges and servos all need to be tightly mounted and not flex at all under stress. Most flyers underestimate the forces on a plane in flight.
5. Too much or too little movement in the elevons. If the hinges are too tight the elevons won't go down far enough. Elevator stick should move the surfaces 1/4"-1/2" and the aileron should also move the elevons 1/4"-1/2". Combined full elevator and aileron will be 1/2"-1".
6. Batteries get damaged. If your battery has an end or edge towards the front of the plane it may mushroom in an accident. In this plane you will need to lay the battery flat or Velcro it to the outside of the wing.
7. Plane is hard to see. If you can't see it you can't fly it. You need to be able to tell top from bottom of plane. Colors need to stand out in all weather conditions. We like to add a small amount of the colored packing tape, Ultracoat or my favorites are the 163 kinds of holographic tape from http://stores.ebay.com/Paper-Street-Plastics. Link to their 14 color sample packs. http://cgi.ebay.com/Glittering-Sequi...item1c0952f993
8. The plane is not strong enough resulting in flutter and control problems. We like to build reinforce and cover the wing before we go back and cut through the laminate to install the radio. There should be no empty space in the wing. The battery, servos, ESC and receiver should fill all cut out spaces tightly and become part of the solid core making the plane less likely to bend or flutter. Our method removes less foam so it is stronger, easier to build, protects the radio better and has fewer field repairs.
9. Radio problems with programing, weak batteries or weak servos. Get to know your radio. If your radio isn't working right you can't fly your plane. Batteries that are not powerful enough for the motors you are using will last only a few flights. Broken servos are not uncommon for new flyers.
Thanks Mark. I think that information would probably pertain to the construction of any plane.
While I was building my Assassin,I found the following information to be very helpful.
Building the Assassin: http://vimeo.com/6636832
How to preflight an RC flying wing: http://vimeo.com/8127864
How to preflight Part 2: http://vimeo.com/8129460
I'm almost done building. Now I have to learn to fly it.
Don't be afraid to ask for help. Wings are easy to fly, and super fun, but the inital radio set-up and trim can be a pain sometimes. I'm sure with the warm week-end planned, a few of us will be out there at the field or the HS, depending on the wetness and such.
Properly balanced and trimmed, you will have no issues at all.
Mark is right. Please ask for help. There is enough of us wing pilots, to help out. I will try and post as much as I can about the contest plane. If something is unclear please call or post it.
So far these are things that have been discovered. Power test... The wing should hover in your hand at or near half throttle, holding the nose of your wing, and the nose pointing to the sky. (have someone help you. Throttle up and the wing should push enough in your hand, so you can let go (for a second), during throttle up. If not, check your motor for metal filings near and around the stator and magnets, they have been known to be dirty.
Bury your wires, streamline seems to be faster....
Fins on the wing control the yaw better on the ends. (Rules: remember glue or tape to attach)
Go to the field and test your launcher!! Thanks to Matt, all six are at the field. Your wing has enough power to take-off from these stanchions. Just find your angle of attack, 25 to 35 degrees seems to work. wait, what direction is the wind coming from???
Please note, these are suggestions...
Lets have fun and be competative!!! ;-)
Are there any left? I can order one from crashtest, but does anyone have one left? or did anyone buy a spare?
John, At this point I would self order. Tell them you are with GMRC, and I ordered close to 20 planes so far, they may cut a little off. It really is a simple build, and is fun to fly.
Well ..... here's a thought
There is one that hasn't been picked up or delivered from the last order. It belongs to Dave Tomczak. Maybe he would sell it to you.
Does anyone have contact info for Dave? Is he on this site? thanks! cant wait to get into it.
Sorry John,
Apparently Dave saw my post and picked up his plane last night. He's psyched to join the contest. Back to ordering one yourself. I like Mark's idea that you barter that we've already bought, how would Mark put it, a gazillion, of these of these from them and see if they will give you the discount.
yup, will buy tommorow. anyone else need one? call me 585 9045 by noon tommorow.
maybe its just me, but did the wing come with instructions? if anyone has one, can you email me the instructions, or post a link to go to?
John, Check links above. Download files. Do not chamfer the wing ends, we are flying them with fins. See rules as well. Any questions, e-mail me.
-Trainwreck
Contest director
-Tony
Post #22 - Contest Plane Details (PDF Documents)
Rev 5 - Contest Rules 2010 - Pylon Racing
Sorry about the rules and specs, keep in mind we are trying to level the playing field and in doing so, we open this competition to everyone in the club. We are trying to achieve an affordable and fun competition.
Rules and Specifications:
You and anyone involved in the race must wear an approved helmet.
A bike helmet or construction hat (or equivalent) is sufficient. If you do not have one, we will provide one.
Required Equipment:
• Prop - 7 X 6 (only approved Hobby City prop)
• Prop saver – Any manufacturer, but it must be used.
• Battery – Any 3 cell Lipo (11.1v) with 30C or less rating, mAh range 1200-1850
• Motor - must be a FC 28-12 Bushless Outrunner 1534kv – max current 15.5A, 3mm shaft, 46mm length, 39g weight, stator 22x10mm
• ESC – Any 25A – no special features
• Must have 2 servos for control and no more (see rule section).
Rules:
• $25.00 Entry fee; must be a GMRC member and have a current AMA #.
• Any size fins are allowed.
• Must build to Instructions, with these following exceptions;
o Any size servo may be used.
o Servo orientation unlimited, but rod connection must be exposed on top of wing to elevon horn. Only the straw support (comes with the kit) can be used to aid the connection.
o Any material linkages may be used to connect servo to elevon horn.
o Aileron materials are of foam/tape, or type of balsawood. No other materials may be used.
o Must have two fins only, any size.
Winglet (fins), wing must have two. Any size or shape. Materials are: foam, plastic, or type of balsawood. No material made of metal (safety first). These fins can be glued or taped on.
• Electronic components can be buried in wing (for protection).
• Fairing can be made to cover exposed wires to motor.
• You can cover or add foam to protect your components; you cannot alter the airfoil to achieve this.
• Only this fairing and the two fins can be added to the wing. If you have any thoughts of adding something to the wing, it must be approved by the contest committee, prior to the first race. If you race with unapproved items, you are subject to disqualification. Please keep in mind, THIS IS A FAIR and FUN competition.
• Wings can be covered with film, spray paint or colored packing tape.
• Based on your battery choice, you may move your battery cutout forward or back slightly (max 1”) to achieve balance. If more is required, please bring to Contest Director’s attention prior to inspection.
• Must have AMA information on your aircraft (this is an AMA Rule!!).
• Must have a minimum 3-inch-high race number on the top right and bottom right of the wing. (some pilots have been grandfathered in, because of earlier rule revisions, and a lot of sticky glue) Please contact me if this is the case. (Tony))
Race Format: (structure subject to change prior to competition start)
Prior to each night’s first race: Tech Inspection, Pilots meeting
Structure
All planes will start the race from the stanchions, in the middle of the track. Based on wind coming from the north, stanchions will be facing north (into the wind). With this north direction, planes must fly to the right of the north pylon. Planes will proceed into the CCW pattern (left turns) and when the first plane reaches the south pylon, the lap count starts. Laps will be CCW around 2 pylons.
One cut is a point penalty; second cut will result in a last place finish.
There is a maximum of 4 aircraft in a single race.
Cut Official will identify aircraft number on cuts and hand to official after race. Points will be determined at that time.
Qualifying laps
Prior to first race of the season, pilot must complete a timed two laps. This will determine starting position.
Points system
5 counted races of 10 weeks of attempts.
************
Im interested to see other peoples build weight, with battery. Trying to decide how much more tape, if I need it, that I can add. Video says 1.6 LBS? Thanks!
These guys are in the USA, and stock the correct servo's and stuff!
http://www.valuehobby.com/index.php
http://www.valuehobby.com/product_details.php?category_id=19&item_id=151
http://www.valuehobby.com/product_details.php?item_id=186
http://www.valuehobby.com/product_details.php?category_id=8&item_id=219
Mark,
I am not getting any club emails so I am clueless.
Peter Cottrell
pcottrel@myfairpoint.net
Peter Cottrell